Max's TO rate is easily tops on the team. He doesn't touch the ball enough to turn the ball over at the rate he's turning it over. Max has no offense. he takes up space on that half of the court. Wouldn't you rather see Noah get more run to get his rhythm going? Baumann can stroke the ball, especially when he's not rushing...or worried about a short leash.

I want to think Max can be a plus defender. Watch him tonight. When he's guarding, are his hips low, and does he initiate his feet ahead of his opponent? Watch him on help defense. Does he collapse to protect the rim when appropriate? Then watch for some of these things: Drops head; looks lost; charges into defenders with the ball; entry pass turnovers from bad half court angles; drops passes. He does most of these things on a game by game basis. I'm ready for CAE to recognize the negative +/- minutes and tighten the rotation for the benefit of the team.

OK. I respect your perspective. Just know that my commentary on Max's abysmal offensive capabilities is not what I'm leading with. That's just the icing on the cake. ...and yes, I understand basketball is not just about scoring.

Max is a defensive liability. Period. Plain and simple. He's tall, yes. Presence on the court? ...not so much. He looks like he won a ticket to be on the court inside a box of cracker-jacks, and he's trying to learn how to play while he's out there. Quite literally, he is ineffective in M2M defense, getting beat like a drum with great frequency. If you follow basketball, you'll identify the strong defensive players with quick feet. It's the most important part of defending, other than knowing where to be. Low hips and fast feet are not Max's strengths, by any measurement. He's long, so he can sometimes recover from behind, but that's infrequent. He is not a threat to block shots (even at his height), and he rarely will beat his opponent to the spot. He had a steal and breakaway dunk a few games ago, but anybody worth their salt understands that the pass was a lazy pass/bad turnover, and it could easily be seen that Max was late to recover from chasing his player baseline, Max was "gifted" that ball while running full speed. it was an inherited highlight.

Quite literally, if Max were a 6'2" HS senior right now with his current skill sets, he wouldn't even be a three star recruit on any scouting services. People, including CAE, are betting on his future with his extending frame. It's obvious that his coordination has suffered because of his growth spurt.

Agree to disagree wit cha. I do not believe Max is even an average defender, and he proves it most possessions. Add lost possessions due to turnovers, missed shots and missed assignments, and he's become a bit of a liability on what is a very deep and talented team.

MeltonNoHelton - my friend, tonight was symptomatic of all the things we are disagreeing on.

!st Half:
10:43 - Max got beat bad, and had to foul trying to recover. It was not pretty.
10:00 - Open jumper and Max was out of position
6:50 - Max, once again, was beat badly and had to foul from behind

2nd Half:
10:55 - Max lost the ball and caused yet another turnover attacking the basket from the wing by himself. He was pulled and did not return tonight.

He had one nice double team block in the second half, but that was his only positive play. ...and CAE is starting to notice. Max played a whopping 8 minutes - less than 50% of his recent average. This needs to continue if we have hopes of reaching our potential.

Max's Statline:
8 Minutes
0 points
3 REB
1 TO
1 BLK

IMPACT PLAYS: 4 negative/1 positive

Max was a non factor on either end of the court, and his defensive liability led to his 3 fouls - getting beat in half court sets and committing bad/unnecessary fouls. Thoughts?

Well put, TBU. "He is a good athlete, but not a good basketball player." Spot on. We're arguably the deepest team in the PAC-12, and if Max was on any of the next 5 teams (ucla, colorado, oregon, stanford, arizona) or asu, he would be playing far fewer minutes than he is for us. ...maybe not playing at all on some teams.

I will also bet that the light goes on for CAE and staff at some point in the next 4-5 games and Max's minutes drop to 5-10 mpg. (Fingers crossed.)

I think it's far more likely, Mojo, that Max continues to contribute in numerous ways than he is to have his minutes go down.

Well said, redondob. I couldn't agree with you more.

I couldn't agree with you more, FastEddieFinalFour! You said it all. ...at last CAE must finally be agreeing. Max only played 8 mediocre minutes tonight. He had one nice play on a double-team block down low (an easy play, really), but he still had 4 miscues in the game. He'll need the offseason to get it going. Hopefully he will get it going next year.

Agree to completely disagree. That is a terrible comparison. Uh, Kyle Kuzma was a rock star playing a limited role on a good Utah team when he was in college. He was a difference maker both for the Utes and the Lakers the minute he arrived. He was also a fantastic rookie who was drafted way too late. He was predicted to be a top 12 pick if the draft was redrafted at the end of his rookie year. He is also exceptional at finding offense, and has always had control of his body. Max is fundamentally flawed at this point, and he's just not that coordinated after having sprouted to 6'9." It will take time to see, but it's obvious he's not a "helper" right now on this very talented, deep team. Love his heart though. Fight on Max!

Kuz didn’t even really breakout until his 3rd year at Utah, though his second year was better than Max’s so far.

The point I was getting at is Kuz played great in small stretches for the lakers, but was also wildly inconsistent to the point he was allegedly on the trading block. This season he is finally comfortable with his role as 6th man/spot starter and is playing within himself both offensively and defensively and the results are much better.

Is max ceiling as high as Kuz or anywhere close? No. But I don’t believe he’s a lost cause with his size, athleticism, and the hustle he shows on defense.

I still expect a big game from him before the season is done.

PxPxTrojan - Kuz iz a stud. He scored well as a rookie. He struggled once LBJ came to town, cause LBJ likes to pound the ball...and that can be brutal for teammates to figure out. Not sure why Kyle Kuzma and Max are ending up in the same sentence. They don't belong. Max's issues are fundamental. Unlike Kuzma, Agbongpolo struggles at both ends of the court. He has marginal offensive skills, and is, at best, an average defender. imo he's struggling to catch up to the growth of his body - which will happen at some point. ....but he's not going to flip a switch this season. If he does have a breakout game, it will be at the expense of too may court minutes chock full of mistakes and blunders. Can Max Agbongpolo become a key contributor? Can his skills catch up to his body? Will he continue to learn and improve and fight to be the best player he can be? ...potentially all PAC-12? Sure. I hope so. I know he'll work his arse off, and I'm rooting for him. There's just too much love for his defense on this board, and it's unwarranted. I'll start drinking the "Max can be Kyle Kuzma" Kool-Aid once I see him stop running over defenders, mishandling the ball, turning the ball over using horrible passing angles in half court sets, fouling from behind, dropping his head, and getting relentlessly beat to the spot by his opponents on defense. Until then, Kyle Kuzma is working to be an NBA All-Star. Max is a 2-star college prospect with boatloads of potential.

No presumption, but it was clearly a transition in CAE's thought process. The 8 minutes was the fewest in many games, and he was repeatedly beat in half court sets, and resorted to fouling from behind. I thought it was much more of the same as I've seen from him in the past few months. He left this game with another negative in plus/minus, and turned the ball over yet again in 8 minutes. I keep hearing he's a good defender.
yet there is no evidence of this. it might not seem so, but I'm rooting for the kid. That said, his lack of ability to stay in front of his man on the defensive end continues to cost this team.

If we are going to succeed this season - do the best we possibly can and achieve the greatest of heights - it is not going to be with Max playing significant minutes. He needs time to catch up with his body. That's just not going to happen this season. While tall and fast, his lack of agility and anticipation clearly continues to create disadvantage. CAE has had far too much patience with his to this point this season. This is a special team, and other players are suffering at the expense of Max's minutes.

Calling it like it is.

I love it. I know it's hard to tell tone on message boards, but Max is among my favorite players on the team. ....not because he's dominant on the court. Because he's legitimately a great young man. I'm not sure if you've heard his interviews, but he's so kind and supportive. He obviously comes from a good family. He also seems like a phenomenal teammate. I root for his progress in the future.

I also hope a breakout game is coming, but I hope it happens next season....AS a breakout season. I honestly believe he is enduring a stage where his abilities will have to catch up with his growth spurt. It can't be easy to grow that tall that quickly.

I'm not trying to be hard on him - I'm just a competitive Trojans basketball junkie, and guys like Baumann, although not exceptional on the defensive end, can truly help this team win with his shooting ability. I don't see any distinguishing difference between Max's defense and Noahs. If there is a difference, it's marginal...and Noah can stretch the floor with his exceptional shooting ability. He's struggling right now, and I believe it's because of his lack of minutes. Max should be better, but he's just not. CAE is going to have to tighten up the rotation a bit, and my eyes tell me that needs to come from Max's minutes. Baumann needs time to work out his confidence and he's not getting enough minutes. I also think Waters could help. (seriously help.)

As much as I'd like to see Max succeed, he remains a liability on both sides of the court at this point. I can't remember one game this season where his positive plays (simple ones -like just beating his man "to the spot") outweigh his mistakes. I truly think we could fly with more minutes for Peterson, Baumann, Goodwin, White, and Waters. Even Taj could use a few more minutes.

It's just about playoff time.

I appreciate sharing perspectives. Fight On as well, FightOn6665!

Let's cut down nets!

Exactamundo.